http://www.fiftiesweb.com/fashion/jfk.jpg

Sure individual monarchs may not be contemptible, after all, just as being born into wealth and luxury doesn’t determine your greatness as a person, neither does it detract, but The monarchy as a system is logically indefensible. It’s entire premise rests on pseudo genetics and religious bullshit so bullshit even most religious people don’t buy it.

If you want to pedestal someone go elect an Übermensch, if you’re worried democracy will taint him/her raise it Truman

Look, if there’s ever a 2/3 majority in parliament to change how things are run currently, I’ll accept that (and leave, probably). But seeing the most reliable (or least unreliable, if you will) source says 80% support the monarchy, that won’t happen for a long time.

The 40% number, indeed, comes right out of my ass. So does you 80% number. It’s pathetic to trust polls. But at least I base it on the people I see around me. Many of the people I know are very critical of the monarchy, and those that are not, just don’t care.

Sure they’ll say, yeah all right I support the monarchy, and next when someone tries to abolish it, most of them won’t get out of their beds to do anything about it. Like, you know, vote ‘Beatrix for president’.
The only staunch supporters of the monarchy are orthodox Christians that believe God had personally ordained the Oranjes, and perhaps a million or so retards (respect) that buy all the sewer press magazines. And a few eccentrics like yourself, apparently. :)

But I’m happy for you if you’re happy with a family appointed to be kings and queens of the Netherlands by the Russian Tsar, the British, the Prussians, etc., by all of them, except by ourselves.
It’s not a priority on my list, frankly.

With all due respect, I’m sure your wife is a lovely person, but continuing the lineage of the Royal Family is much more important to the stability and longevity of this country than a biochemist.

The lineage of the royal family is irrelevant. If W.-A. has no kids, any other member can take over. His brother, or his brother’s kid, etc. So your argument is completely flawed. My argument was that they are in fact privileged unlike what you claimed. I guess you agree with that. Let him get his own girl friend to Holland, and let him be subjected to the same procedures I was/everyone else is. That would mean they could live together in Holland maybe a year or more later than was the case now.
Is that a threat to the continuity of the “lineage of the Royal Family”? Ridiculous.

Oh, and the throw-away junta remark is utterly tasteless. As if the young girl has had anything to do with that stuff. Do we still hold present-day Germans responsible for WWII? I thought we grew beyond that by now.

It’s not tasteless, it’s fucking relevant to every one else. Do you ever think you can immigrate to the Netherlands that easy if you’re the offspring of some kind of dictator, junta member, war criminal, etc.? You’ll be heavily screened. it’ll talke lots of time. But this dictatorship was to our liking at the time (good for business, right?) so that was not a problem.

Of course “the young girl” is not at fault for the fact that her dad is a criminal. No kid ever is. You obviously have never had any dealings with the IND. Well please don’t get involved in any relationship with a non-Dutch woman then. Before you throw those adjectives at me, try to not interpret whatever I say in a completely different way than I, given the context, intended.

And being a royalist has nothing to do with nationalism, by the way.

About the muslim issue: you know I fully agree with you on that one. It’s so sad.

That’s asking the wrong question. The question should be: what’s wrong with the monarchy?

You’re asking this from the status quo.
As I said, there is fundamental, institutional inequality in our monarchic system. Quod licet Iovi, not licet bovi.
I’m arguing from the principal point of view. Is a non-democratic head of state desirable? Of course not. It’s a historical set of events that led to this. I’m not up in arms to storm the palace and guillotine them. Of course not. But it’s still an anachronism from the 19th century. Look at our history, the French period: the Oranjes have always caused division.

Is NL any less democratic than republics?

Of course, because in a republic you get to choose your head of state, and in a monarchy you don’t. How obvious can it get? Do you seriously imply that the royal family cannot, and does not, exert some kind of power? You have a serious naïveté problem if you do.

Is NL any less wealthy?

Yeah, let’s measure everything in money. Many of the world’s largest and most powerful economies, US, Germany, France, Brazil (rising), India, China, Korea, have no monarchs. Now one may assert that in some of those countries they “elect their own emperors every four to five years”, like a French guy told me, and the US is even worse, but that another issue altogether.

You want exceptions? UK - royal family is not taken seriously. Japan - a disaster to its own members, a relic. Saudi Arabia - wealthy, sure. I wonder how’s that. Holland was the wealthiest state on the face of the earth when it was a republic. We were very good at robbing, plundering and killing then (JPCoen comes to mind), and painting too. What are you trying to achieve with this “wealth” argument?

Any less happy? Because of the Monarchy?

Only fools attach the adjective “happy” to a nation. Well, let’s be fools then. I can tell you that we Dutch are not happy. We waste our time being extremely wealthy retards, accusing, for example, Muslims all f**king day long to mess up our nice little country, while we are the greatest hypocrites of all, having supported and still supporting illegal invasions, killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Iraq (look it up yourself Thom), without the blink of an eye.
To most people, this is already an irrelevant footnote in history, I should probably shut up as far as most people are concerned, but I wonder what most people would do if their family was blown to tiny little pieces by a cluster bomb.

So no, frankly I do not believe we are happy. We are a bunch of f**king retards, this whole nationalist meme we’re in is pathetic. The monarchy and the way is slavishly venerated does not personally affect me to the least, but it does expose our total hypocrisy.