i was wandering if one of you maybe could give a link of a article or some numbers who shows how the turkisk population actually think about turkey in EU..

I lived in US for 10 years, and i have been in parts of US where Hispanic population is more than white population does that gives them a right to form their own country in the middle of the US?

Or how about taking half of Netherlands and give it to the Kurdish people so that they can take care of them self’s how would that make you feel?

Also your post makes me think you don’t have a clue about what your are talking about, calling Israel a rouge state and saying you believe that every people have a right to take care of them self’s. Those two don’t belong in the same sentence.

Okay the first objection, the Armenian Genocide, yes the Turks are not ready to accept it yet. However, it can be addressed. I once saw an editorial in a Turkish newspaper, where the editor suggested a joint commission on the establishment of the fact, done mostly by historians ofcourse. In other words, there can be an attempt to come to a consensus if every side willing to hold a dialouge. Obviously sufficient attention must be devoted to it.

The other issue, the Kurdish problem. Parts of the region called Kurdistan exist in Turkey, Iran, Iraq and to an extent in Syria also. One thing you cannot expect from these countries (or any country in the globe, hell even Netherlands) is willingness let a territory secede because it contains a different ethnicity. And most often a ethnic group is not interested to struggle at the expense of their property and lives if they get their fair share of rights (and these rights are not related to jobs or education, they more about cultural suppression, language, names etc). That’s the core issue, the previous governments mistrusted them, and tried to turkicize them so the rebel groups found popular support in the region. There was brutal suppression, I agree. But today this is changing, their current government is addressing those issues and many Kurds are actually satisfied with the progress. However the rebels will not have any of it. These rebels have also in the past openly threatened and killed kurds who have worked with the Turkish goverment to develope their infrastructure (schools, hospitals and the like). The current tension is also due to them entirely. They are just extreme elements, for whom there is no middle ground. Most Kurds are not that extreme and they are ready to accept a compromise.

And I have to say the EU being a bastion of freedom, also places limits on that expression. I don’t really understand what is the point behind placing laws dealing with holocaust denial. Isn’t that an attack on the freedom of speech? If historians agree and establish that the holocaust had occured (and their papers can be openly accessed, read and debated on), why does anybody think a fringe group would be able to alter the facts? Maybe you should write an entry on that. Oh wait, is there a law against criticism of the holocaust denial law?

About your last point, all I can say is that the EU, during it’s expansion drive have taken in a number of countries with equal economic stature to Turkey. Your tax dollars are going there too. Maybe you should speak out against your tax wealth going anywhere else but your own country, that makes more sense.

The bottom line is, all the issues discussed above can be dealt with, and Turkey’s entry process is all about addressing those (and other prominent ones, such as strong suppression of religion, the military’s right to intervene in the democracy, etc). And Turkey surely has a long way to go. But even if if all those are problems are mitigated, would you still be ok with their entry? Oh wait they are Asians, they are not made for the EU.

And frankly I am not surprised with your opinion, because everytime there is a talk about Turkey in the EU, the Armenians and the Kurds have their day. So how can anyone have a good opinion on the issue? But you know better Thom, as in the world of OSs, that’s it’s never black and white. You have to see behind the propaganda, and the majority opinion. But by the way, I am not Turkish, I am a student in the EU right now who had also studied in Turkey. So being there I managed to have different opinion. I am not saying that the Turks are without their faults, but neither is anyone else, and they as a nation have undergone a lot of changes to become compatible with the norms of EU. They still have a long way ahead, but utter dismissal of their prospect just reeks of biased attitude shaped by the media. Apologies for the long post btw.

If you really believe that the UK supports Turkey’s application because the US demands it you are being deluded by your own ignorance.

However Amil, the US has absolutely no say in EU matters and it shouldn’t. The US only wants to weaken the EU and a Turkey that is not ready in the EU will do just that. As for the British, well, they are just the servants of the US and are more interested in being in good terms with them, than with the rest of the EU. As a liberal Greek, I have nothing against a country that looks out for its own interests, but when it comes to conflicting with my country’s interests, I will choose to support my country.

Turkey should become a member of the EU on it’s own, because it will deserve to be and not because Obama, or Bush, or… Brown wants it.